Fate SRD

Apr 19, 2015 Fate Core Thought of the Day Advanced...

- April 19, 2015 at 11:55 PM -0400 - Updated: April 19, 2015 at 11:55 PM -0400
Fate Core Thought of the Day:  Advanced Fiction First

Ooooooh.  Advanced.  Sounds pretentious.  And, honestly, this is kind of a weird subject, so I might have to approach it somewhat obliquely in a few ways.

So, most of the time, when I talk about "Fiction First" it's from the viewpoint of resolving actions.  And that's a pretty good use of it, because it can be really hard to resolve Fate actions if you don't do it in a fiction first way.

This is the same, but slightly different.  Maybe a bit deeper, or more theoretical.  Maybe slightly less immediately practical.  Maybe I've just finally gone off the deep end.  Maybe more than one of the above.

Perhaps, it'd be better described as "the primacy of fiction".  But that sounds even more bizarre than "fiction first".

Anyway, the canonical example of this is that a room isn't dark because it has the Dark aspect.  The room has the Dark aspect because it's dark.

The way I look at it, there's four primary elements in most RPGs.  The players, the GM, the "fiction", and "the bits".  The fiction being the stuff we imagine in our heads, and the bits being the stuff written down on a piece of paper, or the dice, or the tokens on the map.

So what this really kinda says here is that "the fiction" is what drives the bits, and not the other way around.

Basically, imagining a dark room is "the fiction".  The 3X5 card or whiteboard note or whatever saying Dark is "the bits".  And the fiction is what comes first, and what drives the bits.  Always.  We use the minimum amount of "bits" to keep everyone on the same page, and to make sure we don't forget stuff.

So when somebody gets knocked on the ground, that's what leads.  The fact that On the Ground is an aspect is really more of a note of this, so that we don't forget it, and a hint that we can use certain mechanics relating to this fact now.

So, here's a slightly more advanced example.  One of the things we hear is "situation aspects exist until they're not longer narratively relevant."  What the hell does that mean?  Here's a more concrete example.

You're providing Covering Fire.  Then, you go inside a cave that has no visibility to the area you were providing covering fire for.  What happens?

So, if we do a "mechanics first" approach (or, "primacy of the bits" if you want), there's an aspect there, and we need to have some mechanical interaction to get rid of the Covering Fire aspect, or maybe it's even there.  It seems a bit.... odd.

But from a "fiction first" approach, it all just... works.  The aspect is just a reflection of the 'reality' of your PC providing covering fire.  If you're in the cave, you're clearly not providing covering fire any more, and so there's no reason for there to be an aspect, right?

And that, right there, is the core of "fiction first".  The mechanics do not define the reality.  They merely reflect the reality, and specifically only certain parts of it.  If the imagined reality ever conflicts with the mechanical bits, the imagined reality wins.

And when we start applying this idea more broadly, a lot of things become really obvious.  Have a Broken Leg consequence?  Weird that it means you can't climb a ladder without a Compel?  Yeah, that would be weird.  But, in the fiction, it makes perfect sense that you can't just climb a ladder if you have a broken leg, right?  We don't even get to the point of a roll or anything else, because the fiction coming first tells us that the action doesn't even make any sense to begin with.

This isn't how all games work!  Many games have lists of specific conditions, that tell you exactly what you can and can't do, with specific modifiers and conditions.   And that causes a lot of confusion - people see "Aspects can be invoked for +2 or Compelled" and assume that's all they can do, because those are the only mechanical effects.  

But that's not even half of the story - yes, those are the pure mechanical effects (apart from providing passive opposition), but since aspects are true, and the fiction leads, then any logical consequence of those aspects is true as well.  And, really, again, the aspect is just a note, a reflection of the imagined 'reality' in the first place.

To me, fully understanding this idea is the point at which Fate goes from being a fairly complex game to being an incredibly simple and streamlined game, and the point at which it really begins to "sing".
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- April 19, 2015 at 11:56 PM -0400
Note that I think that the Evil Hat guys have so internalized this idea that it never really occurred to them that it might not be obvious to others, which is probably why "aspects are true" wasn't really called out until Fate Core.
- April 20, 2015 at 12:05 AM -0400
This is the reason FAE is so awesome for playing superhero games. You're can't throw that car because you have Super Strong on your sheet. You can throw that car because you said your superpower is super strength.
- April 20, 2015 at 12:42 AM -0400
I personally like the approach of describing something and then highlighting parts of the text, the aspects, rather than trying to come up with aspects on their own. As the description changes, those highlighted parts change as well, however that change came to be.
- April 20, 2015 at 1:27 AM -0400
Every detail in the game is a potential aspect, and what makes it an aspect is that it becomes important. Thus if it is dark in a scene, and someone uses it, it becomes Dark. Someone turns on the light and it goes away. I generally expect aspects to pop into and out of existence pretty regularly as needed.

I've been tempted to write up Fate in a way that makes this even more explicit somehow, such as reframing Create an Advantage to Promote a Detail to Aspect. Or even just assuming that every detail is an aspect, and making Create an Advantage only provide free invokes, which you just label what detail they are attached to.
- April 20, 2015 at 1:39 AM -0400
This is really why "temporary" aspects became "situation" aspects. Because the situation that determines their duration lives in the fiction.
- April 20, 2015 at 3:07 AM -0400
I agree with +Robert Hanz , good stuff.
- April 20, 2015 at 3:10 AM -0400
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- April 20, 2015 at 3:57 AM -0400
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- April 20, 2015 at 5:09 AM -0400
You can totally climb a ladder with two arms and one leg. But otherwise, I totally agree!
- April 20, 2015 at 5:22 AM -0400
I think a lot of what gets called out as "fiction" or "story" these days is what used to get called "role playing". As in when games like D&D had no rules for social encounters, you'd resolve it by "role playing", which basically meant a consensus reached by group storytelling and arbitrated by the GM. That principle has never gone away, IMHO - and it's very much a given group's preference as to how much or little consensus they use to resolve decision nodes and inflection points as opposed to going to the rules - it's a dial rather than a binary switch. Personally I prefer to resolve story nodes of major consequence more by going to the rules - I get uncomfortable with GM fiat bearing too much of the weight of character-destroying decisions - but YMWDV. :)
- April 20, 2015 at 5:36 AM -0400
One of the things I like about Fate is that it has rules to help diminish the risk of GM fiat destroying characters.
- April 20, 2015 at 7:53 AM -0400
+Robert Hanz You are right. And yet, I still feel bad for my players when I kill their free invokes. I tend to carry over free invokes to new aspects, if it makes sense. But it fits only in very few cases. The players worked to prepare the situation. They invested their actions, maybe fate points. And then it was in vain.

It's a bit like a surprise party and the birthday boy decides to go to the cinema instead of home.
- April 20, 2015 at 8:45 AM -0400 - Updated: April 20, 2015 at 11:41 AM -0400
I think fate aspects are partially neat because they're a HUD, not a physics engine. They tell you what the important facts to track are, and those can be decided and changed in real time, but that, fundamentally, is all aspects do.

Skills/approaches and resistances, the fate point economy, and stress are different widgets and do different things.

But unlike most systems, which which things have mechanical weight is encoded into the rules, Fate specifies them at the table.
- April 20, 2015 at 9:44 AM -0400
Lately I've been applying the same principles to character aspects.  In the last few hacks I've worked on, I've done away with the Concept aspect entirely in favor of a short descriptive paragraph, because even though I greatly prefer aspects to any other major mechanic, I would rather people not think of their characters as a collection of abilities.
- April 20, 2015 at 9:47 AM -0400 - Updated: April 20, 2015 at 10:01 AM -0400
I was a fan of a classic RPG where all conditions could be reduced to combat modifiers in 5% increments.  But Aspects carry the flexibility of a verbal statement, and the players are left to decide how to exploit them, with what Skill (or Approach) to use them.

In Roll20.net, the GM can write Text lines right on his Map Layer, maybe in red.  Secret Aspects could go in the GM Layer which the players can't see.  Since these are elements similar to Tokens or map tiles, they can easily be deleted when they no longer apply.  A Secret Aspect can change Layer when it becomes obvious.

I was a player in a SF Fate game where we had no particular map as we travelled from the home-planet to a remote space-station with troubles.  There was a planet and starfield.  We were discussing things (theater of the mind), preparing to move to that isolated troublesome spot, and the inky blackness of deep space was filling up with a lot of political Aspects.  I forget exactly what Aspects were on but it had some evocative things like Station Master Is A Law Unto Herself and Off-Season For This Quadrant (as this was one of four stations in the planetary orbit and it was nowhere near the Jump-Point for the system at the time).  It was a glorious thing and I took a screen-shot of it, wisely assuming this would guide several sessions of play.  Unfortunately the game itself started strong, with strongly developed characters, but ended abruptly after the first session, I assume only because the GM had "no time" to continue.
- April 20, 2015 at 10:11 AM -0400
While I would argue that the fifth primary RPG element would be rules, I otherwise agree with what's been said.

Going off the tangent a bit (and to make this more than just a "me too" chime). I've been thinking lately that Covering Fire is bit of a... bad example. It provides opposition, but it is one of the cases where one can reasonalby argue to ignore the opposition. Run straight through the lead rain. Or perhaps send a killer robot through, which has no concept of self-preservation.

The vanilla rules don't really cover the concept of situation aspects causing stress, or other instances where an action might transform into another (in this case your previous CAA acts as an Attack). Same would apply to a Wall of Fire and someone who is determined to push through no matter what. I've decided to handle these as baseline +2 Attack actions, but many newcomers to Fate might not even realize the idea of ignorable opposition.

Granted, these are edge cases, and I haven't been able to come up with any other transforming action than CAA turning into Attack.
- April 20, 2015 at 10:53 AM -0400 - Updated: April 20, 2015 at 11:10 AM -0400
+Thinker Monkey I've always just used Covering Fire as justification for using the free invocation for a "reflex attack" at the skill of the aspect (or +2 as you mentioned) provided that the person attacked comes out of cover while the aspect is still in effect. The aspect still remains in play, providing a passive opposition of 2 (as justification from the aspect, rather than use of an invoke as passive resistance; depending on my whimsy it might be 0 opposition without spending invokes, representing the focus fire drawing attention away from spraying others with bullets) against others attempting movement. Attacking more than one person actively would require the use of Fate points or additional stacked invocations.

I realize that per the action economy this might not be "kosher", but it fits the fiction of bullets and hails of gunfire being deadly and something to be avoided whenever possible. It also makes for intense scenes of player characters being pinned down by mobs of enemies all emptying magazines in their general direction.

The balance to this, as I see it, is that I also make a lot of hard compels on ammo stores (especially in the case of someone firing all-out for a turn or more).

I'm sure I'm breaking some mechanics here, but it sure is fun.
- April 20, 2015 at 11:21 AM -0400
+Christoph Thill "I still feel bad for my players when I kill their free invokes" — man, make sure you pay them back with giving them opportunities to kill yours. That'll help make it feel balanced. :)
- April 20, 2015 at 11:31 AM -0400
+Thinker Monkey

Isn't "ignorable opposition" just a different way of phrasing "success at cost?"
- April 20, 2015 at 11:34 AM -0400
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- April 20, 2015 at 1:14 PM -0400
+Daniel Cathey: "I'm sure I'm breaking some mechanics here, but it sure is fun."

Fiction first - 'figure out what you want to do, and then consult the rules to help you do it'.  So, yeah, you're following the most important rule :)

That said, I'd probably do it more as active opposition to the movement, and if they failed, they could succeed at the cost of an appropriate Consequence.
- April 20, 2015 at 1:23 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz Smart! I'll definitely be using that from now on. Since it's active opposition, the machine gunner would roll at his full "shoot" skill for opposing the movement and it would not cost him the use of an invoke (as the aspect itself is providing justification for the active opposition); would that be a correct series of assumptions?
- April 20, 2015 at 1:25 PM -0400
Yup, though the free invoke would be available for use.
- April 20, 2015 at 1:35 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz Neat, thanks! I'm learning something new or clever about Fate almost daily.
- April 20, 2015 at 1:49 PM -0400
Did you get Aubri to play yet?
- April 20, 2015 at 2:06 PM -0400 - Updated: April 20, 2015 at 2:15 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz We've got a campaign start date for myself, Aubri and my brother as soon as we get back from our Texas trip visiting her family after my Fiscal Year end; about ~3 weeks until I finally get her into some Fate-style goodness. :) She already knows what her character is going to be, so the signs are good.
- April 20, 2015 at 2:07 PM -0400
I'd still love to do an online game with you folks!
- April 20, 2015 at 2:12 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz So would I, that would be great! I'll pester her some more about it once we're back from vacation, I think we'd both enjoy that a lot.
- April 20, 2015 at 5:26 PM -0400
+Jesse Cox Good call, when put into that context it would work that way too. Success at cost calls for serious cost always, but I feel going for table consensus might work better. Some people at the simulationist end might still be more comfortable with an Attack instead, even though that is more swingy than table consensus (which might be what they're looking for). Both, ultimately, serve the fiction in the same manner.
- April 20, 2015 at 5:32 PM -0400 - Updated: April 20, 2015 at 6:45 PM -0400
While paintball ain't combat, I think the opposing movement matches experience pretty well.

When you're being covered, usually you kind of poke out to see if you're still going to attract fire.  If so, you duck back behind your cover.  If you go, you'll almost certainly get nailed by someone if they have any skill whatsoever.  There's a very fast feedback loop there that isn't well handled in many games.

So the 'simulationist' (blecch, hate that term) view isn't necessarily more realistic.  It's just more typical of many game systems.
- April 20, 2015 at 6:53 PM -0400 - Updated: April 20, 2015 at 6:59 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz I'm of the opinion, at this point in time, that Fate can be as realistic (if not more so) than more "simulationist"-bent systems, as long as you can cross the mental gap between literary realism and physical realism. As a gamer who enjoys gritty characters and stories, this has been a realization that helped me grok Fate a little better and give it another go after my initial poorly executed attempt.

Game of Thrones, for example, has a setting and story that is praised by many I have spoken to as a "highly believable world", in that often people die without objective reason, the world is harsh and unforgiving, and the characters are motivated (mostly) by highly tangible ambitions... plus all the brutal combat, of course.

For a long while, I thought that was a genre of storytelling that a Fate-style game could not accomplish; how can you have brutality, a harsh world, betrayal, bloody duels, and that grime-and-grit feel without finding all the knobs and bitz and tacking them on to the most lethal and unforgiving system you can find?

It was not until I came back to Fate that I realized, it is exactly and precisely the type of thing Fate is meant to accomplish (within certain parameters). What bridged the gap for me was when I realized that Ned Stark was not simply a man with a code of honor that led him into an unfortunate series of circumstances that got him executed through GM fiat, but that he had in fact attempted to wage a war of ideologies and honor with a sea of soulless aristocratic backstabbers; the failure of which simply culminated in his imprisonment, being socially Taken Out, and ultimately death/removal from the narrative.

In GURPS terms, a lot of player characters die in a lot of really foolhardy and/or accidental ways, most probably driven by a lot of Disadvantages and incomplete planning.

In Fate terms, there was arguably a huge amount of social conflict, a massive number of concessions, and ultimately a few PC's and their corresponding underlings who got Taken Out in a series of memorable and purposeful events.

I've gone off on a tangent, but my point is that while GURPS might model the blade coming down and the spinal trauma and finally the head separation, Fate has modeled everything up to that point in time; death is simply the inevitable outcome of the preceding events, unworthy of mechanical definition on its own.

You can have plausible verisimilitude (i.e. realism) in both a "simulationist" or "narrative" flavor, but ultimately realism itself is about genre and convention, not physics. You can run a Toon game or a Godfather game in both GURPS and Fate; the only question is, which form of realism or fantasy are you looking for?
- April 20, 2015 at 6:59 PM -0400
+Daniel Cathey:  ONE OF US!

I'd also mention that Consequences provide a lot more in terms of "lasting consequences from wounds" than a ton of systems.

Also:  https://plus.google.com/+RobertHanz/posts/iGBaeXT7PKw
- April 20, 2015 at 7:03 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz Woohoo! Consequences are my third-favorite part of Fate, right behind Aspects and narrative permission. :)
- April 20, 2015 at 7:04 PM -0400
Seriously, I love it when the light bulb goes on for people.
- April 21, 2015 at 1:24 PM -0400 - Updated: April 21, 2015 at 1:24 PM -0400
Thank you +Robert Hanz , a couple of bulbs just flickered to life for me as well, not in terms of understanding the rules but in terms of explaining them to others and refereeing
- April 21, 2015 at 3:49 PM -0400 - Updated: April 21, 2015 at 3:51 PM -0400
+Robert Hanz​'s post reminds me of a post on a Fate thread on /tg/ that tapped into similar insights. I saved it for future Fate threads but now I'm posting it here.

...


Aspects are about spending Fate Points to Invoke them or earning Fate Points to Compel them, right?

Wrong.

This is how Aspects actually work:
> 1) Aspects are always true
> 2) Aspects give permissions
> 3) Aspects are clearly phrased
> 4) Aspects move the adventure forward.

To illustrate why those are the pillars of all good Aspects, let's assume the opposite of each.

> An Aspect is not true
Why give a character Aspects like "Super-Strong," "Billionaire Industrialist," or "Student of Wizardry" if your character is not super-strong, a billionaire industrialist, or a student of wizardry? Why would you give your character Aspects that they could never Invoke or be Compelled for if they aren't true and therefore could never move the adventure forward because they are irrelevant?

> An Aspect doesn't grant permissions
If I have a "Billionaire Industrialist" my character had better 1) have a net worth in the billions, 2) have the various perks that come with being so wealthy, and 3) know a thing or two about business and the industry that he or she makes money from. Those things and more should be implied and agreed upon when the GM signs off on it. If I get none of those things then why would I have an Aspect that says I do? The Aspect is no longer true. How do I Invoke or Compel it if I don't even have what it says?

> Aspects are not clear
What good is an Aspect that no one understands? How is anyone supposed to know what's true about your character if we don't understand how you derive those truths from your phraseology? How can we trust that you get certain permissions or not others if you vaguely word it? How does anyone know when to Invoke or Compel your bad Aspect? How are they supposed to use it?

> Aspects don't move the story forward
Why would you sink Fate Points into an Aspect that accomplishes nothing? Why would you ever get a Compel if nothing that matters to anyone or anything gets complicated as a result of it?

Fate is not about the Fate Points. The Fate Points are an abstraction that facilitates the interplay of Aspects.

When I Create Advantage, I'm establishing new truths that grant new permissions and which move the adventure forward.

When I Attack, the end result is that my opponents have Consequences which are... Aspects. A Broken Arm is a new truth about one's character which affects what they can do; what they are permitted to do. It presents new opportunities to advance the adventure if that character's Broken Arm is exploited for good or bad.

When I Defend, I am trying to prevent a new truth from emerging.

And when I Overcome, I am eliminating the truths and permissions that stand in my character's way, which only moves the adventure further forward.

For my allies are the Aspects. And powerful allies they are. Gameplay creates them, makes them grow. Their energy surrounds us and binds us as player-characters. Narrative beings are they, not this crude matter. You must feel the Aspects around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship.